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	<title>Comments on: Does Value Relevance Research Add Value for Standard Setters?</title>
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		<title>By: Daniel Taylor</title>
		<link>http://www.fasri.net/index.php/2009/06/does-value-relevance-research-add-value-for-standard-setters/comment-page-1/#comment-460</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel Taylor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fasri.net/?p=526#comment-460</guid>
		<description>Playing devil’s advocate to the VR literature...

While I can see arguments for why a significant correlation between returns and item X implies “relevance” and “reliability”, it is less clear that an insignificant correlation implies the absence of “relevance” or “reliability”. If returns are not correlated with X does that mean X is not “relevant” or “reliable” for equity valuation? Perhaps X is relevant and reliable but is priced in a non-linear fashion, in which case a simple linear specification may understate the relation.  This is a null result problem, i.e. failure to reject the null under a given specification does not mean X is not relevant or not reliable for equity valuation. 

While BBL do a nice job of defending the operationalization of “relevance” and “reliability” in the value relevance literature, I am not sure they defend how value relevance studies often form sign predictions.   For example, we often see studies predicting coefficient signs in a regression of returns on accounting items based on whether the accounting items are revenues or expenses.  Often the authors follow up with statements to the effect that returns and item X are negatively correlated consistent with X being an expense of the firm. Why must an expense be negatively correlated with returns? This is not a FASB requirement for an expense.  Presumably the expense will have some positive benefit, if not today then sometime in the future (e.g. R&amp;D).  

The VR literature documents correlations ‘on average’.  The danger with drawing std. setting conclusions from an ‘on average’ result is that for one group of firms the correlations maybe insignificant or negative, while for another set of firms it may be positive. If we are going to draw standard setting conclusions from observed correlations, does this mean we should have different standards for these different groups of firms?

On normative research...

Normative conclusions imply something about relative welfare.  So it isn’t clear to me how, absent data on actual trades/profits &amp; losses of various parties, empirical research can make normative conclusions.  Even with such data, one needs to argue that std setters value the welfare of that particular group of investors. In contrast, evaluating changes in welfare and making normative conclusions is relative easy within the context of an analytical model.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Playing devil’s advocate to the VR literature&#8230;</p>
<p>While I can see arguments for why a significant correlation between returns and item X implies “relevance” and “reliability”, it is less clear that an insignificant correlation implies the absence of “relevance” or “reliability”. If returns are not correlated with X does that mean X is not “relevant” or “reliable” for equity valuation? Perhaps X is relevant and reliable but is priced in a non-linear fashion, in which case a simple linear specification may understate the relation.  This is a null result problem, i.e. failure to reject the null under a given specification does not mean X is not relevant or not reliable for equity valuation. </p>
<p>While BBL do a nice job of defending the operationalization of “relevance” and “reliability” in the value relevance literature, I am not sure they defend how value relevance studies often form sign predictions.   For example, we often see studies predicting coefficient signs in a regression of returns on accounting items based on whether the accounting items are revenues or expenses.  Often the authors follow up with statements to the effect that returns and item X are negatively correlated consistent with X being an expense of the firm. Why must an expense be negatively correlated with returns? This is not a FASB requirement for an expense.  Presumably the expense will have some positive benefit, if not today then sometime in the future (e.g. R&amp;D).  </p>
<p>The VR literature documents correlations ‘on average’.  The danger with drawing std. setting conclusions from an ‘on average’ result is that for one group of firms the correlations maybe insignificant or negative, while for another set of firms it may be positive. If we are going to draw standard setting conclusions from observed correlations, does this mean we should have different standards for these different groups of firms?</p>
<p>On normative research&#8230;</p>
<p>Normative conclusions imply something about relative welfare.  So it isn’t clear to me how, absent data on actual trades/profits &amp; losses of various parties, empirical research can make normative conclusions.  Even with such data, one needs to argue that std setters value the welfare of that particular group of investors. In contrast, evaluating changes in welfare and making normative conclusions is relative easy within the context of an analytical model.</p>
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		<title>By: Dina El-Mahdy</title>
		<link>http://www.fasri.net/index.php/2009/06/does-value-relevance-research-add-value-for-standard-setters/comment-page-1/#comment-304</link>
		<dc:creator>Dina El-Mahdy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 02:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fasri.net/?p=526#comment-304</guid>
		<description>Thanks Michelle for your addition. It is really nice to have the counter-response by Barth, Beaver, Landsman (2001). Barth et al. (2001) highlight the usefulness of value relevance research for standard setters by suggesting that value relevance research is simply &quot;operationalizing and not determining&quot; the FASB’s stated criteria of relevance and reliability. They also focus on the importance of the fair value accounting value relevance research, although its documented estimation errors and mixed results across studies. Barth et al. (2001) further defend the value relevance research by stating that it is not the only source of information to the equity investors. Likewise, Barth et al. (2001) claim that the equity investors are not the only users of financial statements. I think Barth et al. (2001) have done a great job in summarizing the value relevance hypotheses, concepts, and logistics; however, the main question is still unanswered: Does the &quot;operationalization&quot; of FASB&#039;s criteria in the context of value relevance research succeeded in making a &quot;difference&quot; to user’s decisions? 

I agree with you on the importance of building a nomological network for different accounting research areas from time to time, it enriches our understanding of the areas in question and helps foster future research in a more logical way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Michelle for your addition. It is really nice to have the counter-response by Barth, Beaver, Landsman (2001). Barth et al. (2001) highlight the usefulness of value relevance research for standard setters by suggesting that value relevance research is simply &#8220;operationalizing and not determining&#8221; the FASB’s stated criteria of relevance and reliability. They also focus on the importance of the fair value accounting value relevance research, although its documented estimation errors and mixed results across studies. Barth et al. (2001) further defend the value relevance research by stating that it is not the only source of information to the equity investors. Likewise, Barth et al. (2001) claim that the equity investors are not the only users of financial statements. I think Barth et al. (2001) have done a great job in summarizing the value relevance hypotheses, concepts, and logistics; however, the main question is still unanswered: Does the &#8220;operationalization&#8221; of FASB&#8217;s criteria in the context of value relevance research succeeded in making a &#8220;difference&#8221; to user’s decisions? </p>
<p>I agree with you on the importance of building a nomological network for different accounting research areas from time to time, it enriches our understanding of the areas in question and helps foster future research in a more logical way.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelle C Lau</title>
		<link>http://www.fasri.net/index.php/2009/06/does-value-relevance-research-add-value-for-standard-setters/comment-page-1/#comment-277</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelle C Lau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fasri.net/?p=526#comment-277</guid>
		<description>Great discussion so far! If we are using Holthausen and Watts as our starting point, then we should also take into consideration the counter-response by Barth, Beaver, Landsman (2001). Unlike HW, Barth et al., argue that value relevance research does have great implications and importance for standard setters.

In my opinion, any normative model starts from an analysis of the costs and benefits associated with the normative recommendation in question.  By conducting positive research, we are essentially identifying costs and benefits associated with accounting variables. In this way financial accounting research offers an important foundation for the development of normative theories and/or recommendations. 

I do, however, believe that in order for our research to have applicability to normative recommendations, we require a culmination of knowledge.  From my naive perspective, it sometimes appears that our studies can be too disjointed, drawing only upon a fraction of what prior research has found.  Other disciplines have also experienced similar criticisms for examining phenomena  in isolation, limiting the ability for research findings to lead to a better understanding of the phenomena from a ‘big picture’ or ‘total system’ perspective. Newell (1973) offers suggestions from a cognitive psychology perspective for an integrative approach to science, which I think can provide some insights for financial accounting researchers (Newell’s (1973) classic article can be viewed here:  http://shelf1.library.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/tiff2pdf/newell/box00090/fld06286/bdl0001/doc0001/newell.pdf).  For example, integrating our understanding of value relevance research with our understanding of conservatism (as pointed out by Barth et al.), earnings management, incentives, performance measurement etc…can only help to generate a broader understanding of accounting, hopefully leading to more cumulative research.

Perhaps a good starting point to improve the culmination of research, and therefore the applicability to normative recommendations, would be the development of a nomological network for key areas in financial accounting (e.g., value relevance). Similar to the managerial accounting mappings developed by Luft and Shields (2003), a mappings paper organizing all concepts, variables, and their relationships could help to expedite the advancement of research. Although admittedly, the task seems daunting it could prove to be very useful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great discussion so far! If we are using Holthausen and Watts as our starting point, then we should also take into consideration the counter-response by Barth, Beaver, Landsman (2001). Unlike HW, Barth et al., argue that value relevance research does have great implications and importance for standard setters.</p>
<p>In my opinion, any normative model starts from an analysis of the costs and benefits associated with the normative recommendation in question.  By conducting positive research, we are essentially identifying costs and benefits associated with accounting variables. In this way financial accounting research offers an important foundation for the development of normative theories and/or recommendations. </p>
<p>I do, however, believe that in order for our research to have applicability to normative recommendations, we require a culmination of knowledge.  From my naive perspective, it sometimes appears that our studies can be too disjointed, drawing only upon a fraction of what prior research has found.  Other disciplines have also experienced similar criticisms for examining phenomena  in isolation, limiting the ability for research findings to lead to a better understanding of the phenomena from a ‘big picture’ or ‘total system’ perspective. Newell (1973) offers suggestions from a cognitive psychology perspective for an integrative approach to science, which I think can provide some insights for financial accounting researchers (Newell’s (1973) classic article can be viewed here:  <a href="http://shelf1.library.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/tiff2pdf/newell/box00090/fld06286/bdl0001/doc0001/newell.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://shelf1.library.cmu.edu/cgi-bin/tiff2pdf/newell/box00090/fld06286/bdl0001/doc0001/newell.pdf</a>).  For example, integrating our understanding of value relevance research with our understanding of conservatism (as pointed out by Barth et al.), earnings management, incentives, performance measurement etc…can only help to generate a broader understanding of accounting, hopefully leading to more cumulative research.</p>
<p>Perhaps a good starting point to improve the culmination of research, and therefore the applicability to normative recommendations, would be the development of a nomological network for key areas in financial accounting (e.g., value relevance). Similar to the managerial accounting mappings developed by Luft and Shields (2003), a mappings paper organizing all concepts, variables, and their relationships could help to expedite the advancement of research. Although admittedly, the task seems daunting it could prove to be very useful.</p>
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		<title>By: Dina El-Mahdy</title>
		<link>http://www.fasri.net/index.php/2009/06/does-value-relevance-research-add-value-for-standard-setters/comment-page-1/#comment-225</link>
		<dc:creator>Dina El-Mahdy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 11:59:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fasri.net/?p=526#comment-225</guid>
		<description>Thanks Nam for your feedback. If the positive accounting theory is (objectively) describes the actual practices, then we would find either no or minimal difference between the book value (accounting numbers) and market value (the real world numbers). However, this is not true. In the area of value relevance research, the accounting numbers empirically explain, on average, 10% of the variation of the stock returns. I agree with you that the FASB objective is stated in a normative way and I cannot see anything wrong with that. There is a difference between the normative approach of thinking and the normative theory (the foundation for the application).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Nam for your feedback. If the positive accounting theory is (objectively) describes the actual practices, then we would find either no or minimal difference between the book value (accounting numbers) and market value (the real world numbers). However, this is not true. In the area of value relevance research, the accounting numbers empirically explain, on average, 10% of the variation of the stock returns. I agree with you that the FASB objective is stated in a normative way and I cannot see anything wrong with that. There is a difference between the normative approach of thinking and the normative theory (the foundation for the application).</p>
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		<title>By: Nam Tran</title>
		<link>http://www.fasri.net/index.php/2009/06/does-value-relevance-research-add-value-for-standard-setters/comment-page-1/#comment-221</link>
		<dc:creator>Nam Tran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 05:54:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fasri.net/?p=526#comment-221</guid>
		<description>I agree with Dr. Bloomfield that we can increase the usefulness of positive accounting research by utilizing some of its results to make normative recommendations. After all, we want to use our knowledge to make our life better. This would also make academics &quot;more useful&quot; in the eyes of practitioners.

@Dina El-Mahdy: I think a positive theory is by definition a theory that (objectively) describes how the world works. What you are proposing sounds like a normative theory to me. The statement by FASB about the primary role of accounting in itself is a normative statement. Am I missing something from your discussion?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Dr. Bloomfield that we can increase the usefulness of positive accounting research by utilizing some of its results to make normative recommendations. After all, we want to use our knowledge to make our life better. This would also make academics &#8220;more useful&#8221; in the eyes of practitioners.</p>
<p>@Dina El-Mahdy: I think a positive theory is by definition a theory that (objectively) describes how the world works. What you are proposing sounds like a normative theory to me. The statement by FASB about the primary role of accounting in itself is a normative statement. Am I missing something from your discussion?</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Bloomfield</title>
		<link>http://www.fasri.net/index.php/2009/06/does-value-relevance-research-add-value-for-standard-setters/comment-page-1/#comment-210</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Bloomfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 13:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fasri.net/?p=526#comment-210</guid>
		<description>I find it interesting that you say &quot;&lt;em&gt; backward &lt;/em&gt; toward normative theories.&quot; It was a step forward in the 60&#039;s and 70&#039;s from normative theorizing about what accounting should be to positive analysis of data about what accounting actually is. And no doubt we will be continuing positive research for some time.  However, every once in a while, I hope, we can actually step &lt;em&gt; forward &lt;/em&gt; to use some of that positive research to make some normative recommendations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it interesting that you say &#8220;<em> backward </em> toward normative theories.&#8221; It was a step forward in the 60&#8242;s and 70&#8242;s from normative theorizing about what accounting should be to positive analysis of data about what accounting actually is. And no doubt we will be continuing positive research for some time.  However, every once in a while, I hope, we can actually step <em> forward </em> to use some of that positive research to make some normative recommendations.</p>
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		<title>By: Dina El-Mahdy</title>
		<link>http://www.fasri.net/index.php/2009/06/does-value-relevance-research-add-value-for-standard-setters/comment-page-1/#comment-201</link>
		<dc:creator>Dina El-Mahdy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 00:12:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fasri.net/?p=526#comment-201</guid>
		<description>Thanks Dr. Bloomfield for your comments and enriching the discussion. 

I think the accounting discipline needs different positive accounting theories; they could be an extension of the current Positive Accounting Theory (PAT) that underlies the capital market research. I don&#039;t think we need to move backward towards normative theories. The biggest contribution the PAT has on research is to describe the real world and actual practices.  I think it is the time to move forward to face more of the reality and challenges that the accounting discipline is facing right now. 

Yes, in my opinion, I think the PAT is not sufficiently adaptable as time changes. The PAT could be the best in terms of criteria and conventions at a given time but not necessarily the best at another time. The fact that the value relevance of accounting information is decreasing over time coincides with the Holthausen-Watts’s perspective that focuses on the limited vision of value relevance research, being centered on the valuation of equity securities. However, “time change” itself that changed the information set in the market and makes the accounting information less competitive what motivated me to propose developing different PAT to increase the usefulness of accounting information through providing more descriptive solid theories.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Dr. Bloomfield for your comments and enriching the discussion. </p>
<p>I think the accounting discipline needs different positive accounting theories; they could be an extension of the current Positive Accounting Theory (PAT) that underlies the capital market research. I don&#8217;t think we need to move backward towards normative theories. The biggest contribution the PAT has on research is to describe the real world and actual practices.  I think it is the time to move forward to face more of the reality and challenges that the accounting discipline is facing right now. </p>
<p>Yes, in my opinion, I think the PAT is not sufficiently adaptable as time changes. The PAT could be the best in terms of criteria and conventions at a given time but not necessarily the best at another time. The fact that the value relevance of accounting information is decreasing over time coincides with the Holthausen-Watts’s perspective that focuses on the limited vision of value relevance research, being centered on the valuation of equity securities. However, “time change” itself that changed the information set in the market and makes the accounting information less competitive what motivated me to propose developing different PAT to increase the usefulness of accounting information through providing more descriptive solid theories.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Bloomfield</title>
		<link>http://www.fasri.net/index.php/2009/06/does-value-relevance-research-add-value-for-standard-setters/comment-page-1/#comment-194</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Bloomfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Jun 2009 20:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fasri.net/?p=526#comment-194</guid>
		<description>That Holthausen-Watts paper is a great discussion-starter.

I am a little unsure of what you would like to see in an accounting theory.  Is it that you would like a different positive accounting theory--still positive, rather than normative, but just relying on different fundamental disciplines?  Or are you suggesting that we need something that is more normative?

Finally, are you suggesting that positive accounting theory, as envisioned in the HW paper, is somehow not sufficiently adaptable as time changes?  How so?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That Holthausen-Watts paper is a great discussion-starter.</p>
<p>I am a little unsure of what you would like to see in an accounting theory.  Is it that you would like a different positive accounting theory&#8211;still positive, rather than normative, but just relying on different fundamental disciplines?  Or are you suggesting that we need something that is more normative?</p>
<p>Finally, are you suggesting that positive accounting theory, as envisioned in the HW paper, is somehow not sufficiently adaptable as time changes?  How so?</p>
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